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Idaho |
Vu la tronche d'une bonne moitiée de la salle à la fin du film, j'ai le sentiment que pas mal de gens n'ont rien compris ou n'ont pas aimer ou les deux. Perso j'ai adoré, le style visuel, les plans de caméra, les acteurs, les dialogues et la folie du heros qui petit à petit devient flagrante. Y'a vraiment des passages sublimes (la scène du resto... rhaaaa). Le personnage du super tueur est vraiment marrant, une sorte de leon légèrement revu et corrigé. Et rien que pour voir la tête des gens quand la lumière de la salle s'allume, ça vallait le coup de payer un billet. ____________________________ N'oublie jamais ! |
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29-09-2005 à 01h27 |
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alucard |
J'ai trouvé ce film prétentieu à certain moment que ce soit dans les dialogues, les décors ou la musique, de plus il manque l'humour d'un Snatch, <spoiler>même si le coup du type qui se flingue en passant le muret m'y a fait penser</spoiler>. Par contre la fin est une vraie surprise. |
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02-10-2005 à 21h41 |
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| ToNy-DeNtS-De-pLoMb. | Intéressant, différent, un peu décevant mais intéressant ... guy semble plus compliqué comme garçon qu'il n'y parait aux premiers abords ... |
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04-10-2005 à 15h44 |
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Bolayuck |
Idaho a dit :Je suis entièrement d'accord, sur tout. Je n'apporte rien au débat, mais c'est pas grave. Pour la gueule des autres spectateurs, on était pas très nombreux dans la salle, et franchement la plupart tiraient une drôle de tronche, je ne viens d'y penser que maintenant. Très bonne surprise. ____________________________ <AkyRhO> Coito Ergo Sum <Belfas> C'est ca, et dites à César que j'ai la gaule |
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19-10-2005 à 04h33 |
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Dr.Loser |
Quelqu'un a compris ce film ? J'ai tenté de trouver une explication sur le net : y a des gens qui n'ont rien capté et qui le disent, d'autres qui expliquent que c'est très compliqué et qu'il faut le voir plusieurs fois, mais personne pour expliquer le scénario. ____________________________ -- Dites 133t |
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17-04-2006 à 14h01 |
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Xan Kriegor |
Bah au début, je pensais comprendre, puis au fur et à mesure, je me suis aperçu que pas du tout en fait. Passé la première moitié du film, on se croirait en train de regarder le remake de Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, alors forcément... Je crois quand même avoir compris l'intrigue principale, mais alors tous les autres petits trucs à coté, c'est pas la peine. ____________________________ Loser : Ouaip, suffit d'acheter le jeu. De rien. Berfa : tes ouf jai pas 40 balles a dépensé pour un jeu |
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17-04-2006 à 14h52 |
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lupus |
Un bon résumé trouvé dans les forums d'imdb: "i know previously i said i wouldnt explain it, but for those with endurance here it is, for the final time. the basic plot: avi and zack have devised a plot to take out both the mafia and yakuza without directly doing it themselves. they do this by carrying out their master con. and green is their tool in this con, aswell as the non-physical character of gold, who they manipulate. gold represents greed, and other negative personality traits that makes us do bad things. gold is in everyone (nobody sees gold, but gold sees everyone). everytime i mention mr gold from now on in the physical sense, refer the situations connotations back to the true meaning of mr gold. avi and zach have learnt the forumula to break free from gold, and therefore dont feel fear or greed etc. (like green after he breaks free from gold in the lift, he can walk straight past macha without being scared that there is a gun pointed at his face). ofcourse avi and zach are abusing this freedom by utilising their knowledge of gold (the power of greed = gold) to destroy people. avi and zack hire walker and her other women as representatives for gold, so he can essentially communicate to people without being seen. walker herself may be apart of the con, or she may also think that gold is a physical person and is hired unknowingly by zach and avi to do her job. either way it doesnt affect the plot. avi and zack tell green that he has a rare blood disease and he is going to die in 3 days, but they can protect him from the mafia who are out to kill him. (sorter missing green, he could also have been manipulated by avi and zack 'i had a bad feeling') and macha being the biggest crime boss in the city wont stop at a first failed attempt. they say green will have to give them all his money. this whole concept seems ridiculous, hes going to die, yet he is going to give away his money to just stay alive for 3 more days? green doesnt want to die, and his money no longer has a use. his greed for life is more powerfull than his greed for money. think about yourself in the same situation. when green is handing over some bags of money we hear him say 'i know i cant take it with me, so why does it still hurt?'(mr green cant take his money past the grave). this is because avi and zach are helping jake green break free from his inner mr gold which has ruled his life up to this point, they are hurting mr gold by making green give away his money. avi and zack give a load of drugs to macha in some deal (macha wants to do business with the man at the top - gold). macha knows gold is dangerous, so he doesnt want to screw up. avi and zack steal the drugs back - this makes macha angry and scared. macha goes to lord john for last minuit drugs. macha doesnt care about the price as all he wants to do is avoid angering mr gold (mr gold doesnt give second chances). avi and zack (with green and the black woman) steal both the new drugs (from lord john) and the money from macha during the transaction. this causes both macha and lord john (the mafia and the yakuza) to get extremely angry at each other - each side thinks the other side took their stuff in foul play. lord john uses his female assasin (the waitress) to take out macha in the restaraunt. though sorter is already there to intercept the event. macha then sends sorter to take out lord john and his men, and he does so. after paul (macha main henchman) tortures the remaining members of the yakuza, they find they wouldnt say who took the drugs and money. This leads paul to believe that it was all greens doing. so macha sends sorter and all his mafia guys to jake greens brothers house (where they nail his hand to the table). this scene is straightforward, basically sorter believes pauls going too far and flips out and kills all machas guys in the house. sorter gets shot by the last 'goon'. By this point in the plot, all the yakuza are dead, and there is just macha and a few of his guys left. The scene in machas bedroom with green comes slightly earlier, but the last part all clumped together so im describing this scene here instead. we see green standing over machas bed, he is told to shoot him by avi and zach. but avi and zack know that they have damaged greens mr gold so much so far that he is ready to break free. and an order like this will tip green over the edge. we see green argue with gold inside his head, but finally he chooses to go against gold and walk away. greens fear of elevators is significant. his head is the elevator, and mr gold is inside. he has to face his fear by going into the elevator, and at the same time face his other fear, mr gold. in the earlier scene where green zack and avi gas the yakuza and mafia and steal the stuff, we see green in the elevtaor with zack and avi. we see zack threaten green and push him up to the wall and threaten to shoot him. remember avi and zack represent green inner gold, as they have the power to maipulate anybodies mr gold. This shows that mr gold is still more powerfull than jake himself by showing zack physically restrain him. back to the current elevator scene, we see the elevator stop between floor 14 and 12. (in america they dont have a floor named 13 as they believe it to be unlucky). the 13 has cliche'd significance here. we see green face gold in the elevator, we see them argue and fight, gold getting more and more angry, but then green breaks free. the doors open to reveal a very menecing (and slightly ridiculous looking) macha pointing a gun at green. since green is free of gold, he is free of fear. macha has a very dominant sam gold within him still (even though it is still being manipulated, but so gold has more diminance, rather than macha himself - green manipulation is the other way around). macha can't take the fact that green has absolubtly no fear of him and breaks down, unable to shoot green. machas comical apearence could be significant of green having no fear of him, so the audience can see it more clearly somewhere along the lines around this time green donates money to a charity in machas name as a peace offering. at first macha reads the newspapers about him and loves it, well, mr gold loves it, as we hear him thinking. then walker comes in, and has a conversation insinuating that mr gold will kill macha today. we see how mr gold controls macha 'beg beg beg BEG BEG HER'. this scares macha even more, pushing him towards the point of flipping. its then revealed that avi and zack are the inmates that green spent his jail time with. 'we arnt doing this because we like you, were doing this because we ARE you'. this isnt to be taken in the literal sense. They have helped green break free from mr gold, however avi and zack STILL represent mr gold as greens bad sides. they control him like mr gold did, hence avi saying 'we arnt doing this because we like you, were doing this because we ARE you'. green then takes the two origonal bags of drugs to machas room. where macha has jake greens niece hostage. (its safe to say greens brother was killed, as the guy in the car who killed sorter tells macha over the phone 'im the only one left'). macha is completely oblivious to the bags green bought, this is obvious as he doesnt look at them or make any mention of them. WE see machas mr gold say stuff, though this isnt said to jake, we hear gold say it, then macha - more calmly. we see gold in histerics, shaking, crying and genuinly terrified of whats going to happen to him. but macha doesnt show this on the outside at first. notice green doesnt even have to speak to macha, he talks to his neice but thats it (i think). macha thinks hes going to die from what walker told him earlier that day. eventually the unstable dangerous mr gold mixes with the real macha, to create a quivering mess who threatens to shoot greens niece in desperation to survive. 'but he cant kill a dead man. he cant kill a dead man can he?' this is what macha/gold thinks/says. macha believes green is mr gold who has come to kill him. and essentially mr gold does come to kill him, he comes out from within him and shoots macha. ie macha shoots himself. 'the only way to get smarter is by playing a smarter oponent' - and the smartest oponent is yourself. ie he is gold, if you play against gold and win (as green did) you become a lot smarter (like zack and avi). if you play agsint mr gold and lose (like macha did) well...the reults arnt good as you can see. ofcourse green and macha didnt actually KNOW they where playing against themselves, as avi and zack manipulated them into doing so. 'the greatest enemy will hide in the last place you will ever look' - im sure you get it by now, but the last place you would ever look is in your head. and yes, mr.gold is your greatest enemy. 'and the greatest con he ever pulled, was making you believe that you where him' this is refering to mr gold making you believe that you are him. its greed taking over you, which happens. gold did it to macha. remember, avi says the above quote, so he is obviously not mr gold. avi and zack are real, they interact with their clients and also greens men. i hope the above expains all your questions. if i have missed out anything amazingly significant mention it and i will try to explain. does anybody still believe avi and zack are in greens head? because as you may know now, its pretty illogical for them to be fake. you could say any character in a film is fake! guy ritchie has conned the audience into believing avi and zack are fake by using well placed red herrings and quotes. and nobody likes being conned! thats why this film has been so badly slated. just as in the film, avi and zack make people believe that a non-existant character exists...guy ritchie has made the audience beleive that existant characters are non-existant..." ____________________________ Dogs ?!? More like pussies. |
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17-04-2006 à 15h03 |
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Dr.Loser |
Merci Lupus, bien que le point de départ de cette longue explication me semble farfelu : C'est comme Matrix : le film semble meilleur quand on ne le comprend pas. Edité par Dr.Loser le 17-04-2006 à 15h26
____________________________ -- Dites 133t |
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17-04-2006 à 15h22 |
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| lPATTON | Pour ma part je crois avoir compris ce qui devait l'etre, j'ai adorer ! |
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01-05-2006 à 18h29 |
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